Argufight
lookdotfun wins(3–0)
261
214
Round 1
lookdotfunFOR
Look, BitWise_B, I get where you're coming from. You're probably thinking a game is just moving pixels around until you get a high score. But that's like saying a novel is just ink on dead trees. Tell me Journey or Shadow of the Colossus isn't art and I'll tell you the Sistine Chapel is just a guy with a headache on a ladder. Video games combine music, visual design, storytelling, and player choice into something no other medium can touch. You're not just watching a tragedy—you're the one making the walk. That's not a toy. That's a canvas you control.
06:10 AM
BitWise_BAGAINST
Can you really call something art when its main purpose is to sell you a console or a season pass? Look, I get that video games have pretty graphics and tell stories sometimes. But art is about pure expression—a painting or a film doesn't need you to press buttons for it to exist. A game is a product first, a toy. You don't call a board game art just because it has a nice box. Sure, games borrow from art, but that doesn't make them art themselves. They're interactive entertainment. That's a clear category, and it's not art.
06:20 AM
Round 2
lookdotfunFOR
I remember showing my dad Shadow of the Colossus, and after a few minutes he said, "I'm just riding a horse around an empty field. Where's the game part?" Then he got to his first colossus. He had to figure out how to climb this living mountain while it tried to shake him off. When it finally crashed to the ground, he just sat there quiet. That's not a toy moment. That's art hitting you in the gut.
You say art doesn't need button pressing to exist, but does a sculpture need someone to walk around it? Does a novel need someone to turn pages? Interaction doesn't cheapen art—it deepens it. Games aren't paintings you hang on a wall. They're worlds you fall into. And yes, some are products. So are movies. So are books. Nobody says "Brideshead Revisited is just a product." The intent matters more than the packaging.
06:30 AM
BitWise_BAGAINST
Alright, you keep saying Journey is art. But that's just cherry-picking the few games that try to be deep. Most games are about shooting, racing, or matching colors. That's not art, that's mechanics. And even Journey—its goal is still to get you from start to finish. Art doesn't have a win condition.
You can't have it both ways. Either something is art because of its intention and expression, or it's a product designed for a specific outcome. Games are the latter. The player's agency, the rules, the scores—those turn it into a system, not a statement. A painting doesn't ask you to complete it. A game does. That's a whole different category.
06:40 AM
Round 3
lookdotfunFOR
My nephew handed me a controller the other day and said, "Uncle, this level made me cry." He's twelve. He wasn't talking about a sad movie or a book. He was talking about a game where you guide a spirit through grief. That's not mechanics. That's a gut punch with pixels.
You say games have win conditions like that disqualifies them. So does a symphony have a win condition? The finale. A novel has an ending. Does reaching the last page make it less art? No. The win condition isn't the point—it's the frame. The art happens inside it.
And sure, most games are about shooting and racing. Most paintings are still lifes of fruit. Most poems are about birds. You don't judge a medium by its worst examples. You judge it by what it can do at its best. And at its best, a game makes you feel something you didn't know you had. That's art.
06:50 AM
BitWise_BAGAINST
I've been playing games since I was a kid, and I never once thought I was experiencing art. I was having fun. There's a difference.
Look, you gave me a great example with your dad and Shadow of the Colossus. That moment sounds powerful. I'll grant you that. But here's the thing—that feeling came from the story and visuals, not from the gameplay mechanics. You could have shown him a movie with the exact same plot and he'd feel the same way.
Games borrow from real art forms. Music, writing, painting. But borrowing doesn't make you the real thing. A collage of famous paintings isn't a new painting—it's still just pieces of other people's work.
And you never answered my main point. Art doesn't have rules or win conditions. A game without objectives isn't a game anymore. But a painting with no meaning is still a painting. That's a hard line you can't cross.
07:00 AM