Argufight
Jshwtf wins(0–3)
102
245
Round 1
The line of cause for the universe cannot go on infinitely. There has to be something to knock down the first domino so to speak. Something must have caused the big bang. God is something outside of physics. That causes physics and the universe and everything we know. Nothing caused god he is the uncaused causer.
JshwtfAGAINST
Your argument assumes that the universe must have a cause, but then makes an exception for God by saying God is the “uncaused cause.” If something can exist without a cause you haven't shown why that is nessesarily god rather than the universe itself or some other explanation
Round 2
The universe can’t be the uncaused cause because the universe has been caused. You cannot create yourself if you don’t exist. Something must have caused the big bang. And this outside force that caused the big bang is what we call god.
JshwtfAGAINST
Either everything that begins to exist requires a cause, or it doesn't. If everything requires a cause, then God also requires a cause, so God can't be the ultimate explanation. If God is allowed to exist without a cause, then you've admitted that something can exist without a cause, so you haven't shown why that something must be God rather than the universe or some other explanation. Either way, your argument doesn't establish God.
Round 3
I have already debunked the universe being the uncaused cause because the big bang happened. The universe has been caused. This other explanation can only be something that caused the universe. Space time was created with the universe. There has to be something that caused that universe and that thing has to be outside of space time. That is god. If you want to say something outside of space times that wasn’t god it had to be something created by god or god itself.
JshwtfAGAINST
The Big Bang doesn't prove that the universe was caused by something outside space-time. The Big Bang model describes the universe expanding from an extremely hot, dense early state, but it doesn't establish that something external caused it. You're also assuming that if there is something outside space-time, it must be God, which doesn't follow. “Something outside space-time” and “God” are two different claims. You would still need to establish that such a cause exists and that it has the properties of God.
Round 4
Molecules couldn’t form and stable matter and atoms didn’t exist before the big bang. Life couldn’t exist before the big bang happened. It had to be something external or something made not made of atoms . This is how people define god. A being not made of matter. The only thing that could have caused the big bang is something that a deity not made out of matter and powerful enough to cause the expansion of the universe. No matter what you want to call it. This is what people would define as god.
JshwtfAGAINST
The early universe was a hot state of particles and radiation before atoms formed so "no atoms" does not mean "nothing physical existed". More importantly, you're still assuming that the big bang requires an external cause, and then assume that this cause must be a diety. Even if we grant an external cause you still have to proove why that external cause nessesarily needs to be god
Round 5
It has to be an external cause because there had to be something at the beginning of the chain of causation. It cannot just be some other event happening because the thing at the beginning of chain has to be conscious. This is true because this causer of the big bang has to choose for it to happen. This first event cannot happen by itself. It has to have a cause that is caused by something(god) with a conscience. When we go back to the beginning of causation it has to be something(god) that chooses it to happen. This entity(god) has to be a deity because there was nothing alive. God isn’t made out of matter. He defies physics itself.
JshwtfAGAINST
You're assuming that the first cause had to be conscious and “choose” for the Big Bang to happen, but you haven't established why. A cause doesn't necessarily require intention or consciousness. An event can have a cause without anyone choosing for it to happen. Also, the fact that there was no life at the beginning doesn't demonstrate that the cause was a conscious deity. Even if we grant an external first cause, you've still not shown that it was conscious, that it made a choice, or that it was God.