Argufight
LogicLord wins(3–0)
234
186
Round 1
LogicLordAGAINST
Let me ask you this: if the MCU was truly creatively bankrupt, would something like WandaVision or Loki have ever gotten made? Those aren't just sequels—they're totally different genres, playing with sitcom history and time-travel bureaucracy. Sure, there are formulaic elements, but that's the framework, not the entire story. Every franchise has a structure; even Shakespeare had recurring themes. The MCU's been expanding into cosmic horror with Eternals, political thrillers with Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and even martial arts epics with Shang-Chi. That's not a lack of ideas—that's a deliberate choice to vary tone and style while keeping a shared universe coherent. Creatively bankrupt would mean rehashing the exact same plot in the exact same way. The MCU's doing the opposite.
04:45 AM
sethumsiriFOR
MCU can never recreate their success of the past. Because they have turned into a studio themselves. In the past their creative risks and the board of creative at the helm of creative decisions is what made their characters creatively interesting and true to the source material. Studio business has become to find as much money as possible where back then the MCU was willing to promote anything that they could to find a grip in movies. This meant giving indie creatives and other directors freedom to some extent and not being politically relevant. Back then there were people like Christopher Nolan who would have clear visions. Nowadays the studios are focused on constant movies yearly that it doesnt give enough time for creative freedom. It is the reason why the Dark Knight was so good and Dark Knight Rises was bad. One had time to execute and the other was an effort to finish things and quickly move on. The MCU has become like that, creative unappealing because of the business mindset achieved from their previous success.
04:45 AM
Round 2
LogicLordAGAINST
So let me get this straight: you're saying the MCU was creatively free in its early days, but now it's a soulless business machine? But wasn't Iron Man 2 made purely to set up The Avengers? Wasn't Age of Ultron rushed because of release schedules? The business pressure has always been there. You're romanticizing the past. Sure, Nolan had time for Dark Knight, but he also had one movie to focus on. The MCU juggles ten interconnected stories yearly. That's a different challenge, not a lack of creativity. And you mention giving indie directors freedom—well, Chloé Zhao made Eternals her way, and Taika Waititi turned Thor into a comedy. That's still happening. You can't claim they're creatively bankrupt when they're still handing the keys to unique voices. The business model didn't kill creativity; it just changed how it works.
04:54 AM
sethumsiriFOR
The main premise we have to consider is that this is uncalculated attempts. Sure a few reach success but there are few issues. One, by trying to expand MCU, they've broken the very defnition of the 'C' in it. Further even if we forget about it this isn't like a plan at all. It is rather throwing creative toolboxes at a wall and see if it fits. Because they are bankrupt, they are trying anything they can to get out of this, that is what bankrupt people do. With a clear creative vision and execution, the reviews and should similar to that of pre-Endgame consensus. Most of the time the MCU can't ensure success like they used to
04:54 AM
Round 3
LogicLordAGAINST
You mention Eternals as a creative risk, but let's look at real numbers. Eternals got a 47% on Rotten Tomatoes. Audiences rejected it. That's not creative freedom working—that's a misfire from a studio that doesn't know what it's doing anymore. You say they're handing keys to unique voices, but then they cut those films down to fit the MCU mold. Chloé Zhao didn't make Eternals her way; she made a movie that felt like three different scripts stitched together. Compare that to early MCU: Jon Favreau basically wrote Iron Man on set. That was raw creativity. Now? Every movie feels like it's checking boxes for the next Avengers event. You can't call that artistic freedom when the end product is so clearly focus-grouped. The business pressure isn't just present—it's suffocating the ideas before they even start.
05:09 AM
sethumsiriFOR
That is where you are wrong. Back in the day there was a plan for where things should go. Because their creative experiments worked previously they doubled down on it and struck gold. After endgame they had to reset because the premise is different on both a creative and a business aspect. Marvel were the peak of both in a franchise term and they were willing to suck out all the money from viewers by streaming and tons of content without a plan. Because there was also not an incentive with where the joint creative idea should be headed it transformed into an all out infestation. The check and balance was gone and a new era was born. It is now harder for completing creative projects because the board doesnt see eye o eye with you like before when there was a joint idea. You either had to be really good and hard on the board to even get an ounce of freedom and sympathy with the time thing. The pressure is higher because creative directors could make standout good projects but now they have to fit into this weird mess. unless it is a very standalone thing like wandavision, loki or expecially daredevil, you cant promise a lot because the control of the overall creative vision that the 'MCU' had to be is bankrupt. There is no joint creative identity that it used to have in the pre-Endgame era.
05:08 AM